
Stephen Crowley, NYT
There's about 10 minutes to go, and this promises to be interesting. Here's hoping that the actual debate is heaps more interesting than the talking head nonsense I've been listening to for the last two hours. As usual, Olbermann, Matthews, Gregory and the rest of the MSNBC crew have focused on the trivial - subjects that people probably care little about: Bill Ayers, McCain's demeanor during the last debate, and endless predictions about what the candidates will say. ZZZZZZZ The only one who had much interesting to say was Olbermann, who is doing a pretty effective job of exposing the hatred and vitriol that is increasingly becoming a staple of any Palin (and John McCain's, to a certain extent) campaign appearance.
Things are going to get started, as soon as Chris Matthews shuts up. Please check back and hit
Refresh, as I will update periodically when my fingers need a break from typing.
Chris Matthews actually just brought up a good point on
Countdown - how troubling it is that McCain/Palin supporters are yelling out threats and hateful remarks about Obama at campaign appearances. Of course, neither can control what people yell out, but they can and must tell people that that sort of language is completely out of bounds and unacceptable. I haven't thought about it much, but Matthews raises a good point - when these hateful remarks enter the mainstream and go unanswered, "the nuts from the right and left come out," and he mentioned Lee Harvey Oswald. Matthews is right - language by any supporters of any candidate must remain civil and decent, and I certainly hope that the Secret Service takes all of these threats seriously.
They are getting ready to throw it to Brokaw - I'm interested to hear if Brokaw referees the discussion tonight, especially if McCain pulls a Palin and ignores the moderator's questions. I don't think that either candidate can get away with that in this setting. Here we go. ...
9:03: Here come the candidates, and it's no surprise that McCain made some eye contact and greeted Obama much more cordially. (Okay, I guess I'm focusing on the inane now, too - sorry.)
9:04: The first question is on the economy - no surprise there. It goes to Obama first. He characterizes the mess we're in as the "worst economic crisis since the Great Depression." Absolutely. I like the fact that Obama is directly attacking the failed economic policies of Bush. I feel he came off the track already though with his mentioning the economic rescue package from last week. Booooo. But, kudos for mentioning that AIG went on a $400k junket, and he rightfully calls for that money to be returned to taxpayers and for the AIG greedy pigs to be fired. It won't happen, but I'm happy Obama said it.
9:06: McCain starts with energy independence, and I don't know that that's going to resonate. I notice that he mentions keeping taxes low, and I just don't think it's going to wash. The worst kept secret in this campaign is that the next president will
have to raise taxes, period. Very FDR-esque to mention buying up mortgages - and we should - Obama should be putting forth these ideas. McCain's joke falls flat to Brokaw about his being Treasury Secretary. And he sounds a bipartisan note by looking at Obama and mentioning an Obama supporter - Warren Buffet.
Edge to McCain on that question. :o/
9:08: Obama just mentioned that Warren Buffet would be a good choice for Treasury Secretary. I'll be back after I get done biting down on a cyanide capsule.
9:10: First b.s. talking point of the night - McCain just contradicts himself by saying it's a "rescue" not a "bailout," and then he proceeds to talk about greed on Wall St. I must have missed something. I knew it wouldn't take McSame long to sound like a partisan hack. Now he's attacking Obama, and he's repeating himself about stabilizing home values. What about people who don't own homes? Obama had better not let it pass that McCain's campaign manager's company was taking money from Freddie Mac up until about six weeks ago.
Hit him, Barack.
9:12: I like how Obama came out with his response - "let me talk about what's in it for
you..." instead of going off on a partisan attack. After that, he proceeds to attack McCain on deregulation - good. Dereg is poison in the financial markets, and I don't care what the economists say.
Brokaw is trying to trap Obama with a question during the ensuing discussion: "Are you trying to say that people need to prepare for the worst regarding the economy?" Of course, Obama says "No," and he blows it there - it IS going to get worse, but as a candidate, he can't say that.
McCain for the third time is mentioning "buying up bad mortgages" - a good idea, but how many more times will he repeat it tonight? The over/under is 8. I'll take the over. (By the way, conservatives will hate this idea, which I love - McCain really isn't conservative enough for many on the far right, and that just tickles me.) Oh yea, and who's going to pay for it? And where was McCain with this f*&$#@ idea last week - publicly pushing for this? Nowhere to be found, except trying to score political points and trying to suspend the very debates that we have watched and are watching
so he could save our economy (in so many words). Talk about bold ideas... after the fact, and after McCain (and Obama, to be fair) voted
Yea on a POS, pork-infested bill to
bail out of Wall St.
9:18: A boring question about why should Washington be trusted with taxpayers' money. Obama's response was pretty predictable, and now McCain is pimping his resume as a "reformer" and his well-worn campaign faux witticism that "Senator Obama has never taken on a member of his own party," as if that's a prerequisite for running for president. What, no mention of
Maverick?
To me, McCain is not even answering the question now - he's just attacking Obama. I don't know how this is going to play with the voters. And seriously, I'm so tired of hearing "My friends," it's making me crazy. He's just repeating a laundry list of his talking points - energy reform and eliminating our dependency on foreign oil - too bad he has consistently voted against green and alternative energy sources.
9:25: Obama mentions his proposal for $15 billion for alternative energy, and that "we can do it." Bravo. Health care is priority #2 in Obama's mind - good. Education is third, and that's good, too. I haven't heard McCain mention education yet. Obama is now going after McCain for more tax cuts for corporations. Interesting that McCain won't prioritize what's important, like Brokaw asked. Let me get this straight - you're running for president, and you can't come up with the most important thing to address in your new administration? Maybe his aides forgot to tell him what to say. Seriously, that's a pretty telling and significant gaffe.
9:27: An excellent question from a woman who lived through the Great Depression, which asks what sacrifices both candidates will ask Americans to make. McCain is now talking about a fucking overhead projector, for the second time. McDrilly, we get it. (We get how insignificant it is.) I'm waiting for McCain to get on all fours and paw the carpet, while snarling "Grrrr! Earmarks!" Again, Obama has an opportunity here regarding earmarks - will he take it? (Palin - the Princess of Pork - there are some great lines Obama could use here: "You will tell us the names of people who are looking for pork? Look on your own ticket, John." That would be a good start.)
9:29: Obama has the line of the night so far - reminding Americans what Bush wanted people to do not long after 9-11: "to go out and shop." Nice way to ask Americans to sacrifice, Dubya.
I love it that Obama just mentioned Big Oil has 68 million acres of land in contracts that the aren't drilling on - the whole offshore drilling is just an opportunistic bullshit campaign borne out of greed to get more oil, OUR OIL, from underneath OUR lands. Oh yea, and
Hurricane Ike did plenty of damage in the Gulf of Mexico, including plenty of oil spills, too; there goes the GOP line of b.s. about "drilling environmentally responsibly."
9:31: Obama is now on the attack about McCain's rhetoric about earmarks, which accounts for $18 billion of the federal budget. We're gonna need just a few more fat trimming of the federal budget than that, McSame.
9:35: McCain is very full of it when he's talking about how he's not in favor of tax increases for anyone. It's a total lie, and McCain knows it. He wants to keep the current tax rates, but those current tax rates FAVOR THE WEALTHY - the Bush tax cuts that McCain wants to keep in place. (Which, by the way, he was against five years ago, but now that he's running for president, he's for. Which is it?)
9:37: Brokaw is now asking a question about entitlements, and he's being disingenuous at best. Social Security will be fine for decades, and I'd love to hear Obama say that we need to raise the cap on SS from it's current rate of just over $100k per year - raise the taxable income for SS to $250k, and SS will be fine.
9:38: Obama is now coming back to McCain's mischaracterizations about tax cuts, and I'm happy that he is. McCain is trying to paint Obama as someone who will hurt small businesses, and that's bunk, too - the overwhelming majority of small businesses make less than $500,000 per year, and Obama's tax plan leaves those people alone.
9:40: McCain has just repeated himself by boasting about "taking on his own party" for the second or third time - is he going to repeat himself all night? Can we get a
no-repeat debate, McSame? And stop it with the anti-lobbyist rhetoric, when you have so many lobbyists on your staff, including your campaign manager. Hit him, Barack - his gloves are down. I don't know why he doesn't exploit this opening - McCain is repeatedly giving it to him on a silver platter.
9:42: McCain is now talking about his global warming "record," if you can call it that. I'd love to hear one achievement, and so far I'm not hearing it. Now he's really on the
B.S. Express talking about nuclear power - it's"safe and it's clean," eh? I beg to differ. I know that nuclear power must be part of the bridge to new energy technologies, but what will we do with the spent fuel? It's a proposal without a solution to a big problem, McSame.
I'm delighted to hear that Obama is refuting some of McCain's rhetoric about energy, specifically Obama's line when he says, "he complains that nothing has been done in Washington, but he's been there for 26 of them." Nice.
Brokaw is getting cranky about both candidates running over on time. Okay, that's fine - the more questions, the better, so keep 'em straight, Tommy Boy.
McCain is now blubbering about offshore drilling, but I don't buy for a city second that it will reduce the price of oil, and it doesn't take an economist to figure out why. I've written this many times before, and I will undoubtedly do it again - what's to stop Venezuela, Russia and Iran from scaling back production to keep the price of oil high to offset our production in would-be oil fields? In the meantime, our lands get raped, polluted and pillaged by multinational Big Oil companies, with no consequences.
9:49: A question about healthcare - this is Obama's strength - I can't wait to hear McCain's response, because his $5k tax credit is a joke, that will end up in the hands of insurance companies, according to this Website. And he must be nuts if he thinks that insurance companies won't raise the rates to sop up some of that $5k credit that Americans will get under his plan.
Here comes McCain - what line will he repeat here? Wait, wait - he wants to put health records online? He must be out of his mind. I don't want my medical records online, under any circumstances. Now McCain is on an anti-government rant- I'm so shocked, coming from a Republican. It will never cease to amaze me that America elects people to be in charge of our government,
who hate government.Is healthcare a privilege, right or a responsibility? McCain - a
responsibility. Obama - it's a
right. Advantage: Obama. I'm happy that Obama is refuting the myth that he is for "mandates."
One of the best lines of the night - Obama mentions that McCain voted against S-CHIP, a program that Repubes and Bush were against renewing, which gave millions of more children healthcare. I know this is true, and I remember it - I don't even need to go back and look.
9:59: McCain need a drink of water - his mouth sounds as dry as his manner and his answers. Maybe if he stops saying "My friends," his mouth wouldn't be as dry. Now McCain is calling Americans "peacemakers"; Not under this administration. I don't know how Americans feel about it, but there surely are millions around the world who are giving that line an eye roll, at best.
Wow, McCain is leaving himself more open than the town whore when it comes to his foreign policy answers. Of course, McCain mentions the Surge, all but boasting that it was a success, and of course he mentions Georgia and Russia, a sickeningly easy shot that Obama should take. I'll never forget when Georgia provoked Russia (look it up, if you don't believe me, and by looking it up, I don't mean Fox News), and McCain looked into news cameras, saying with a straight face, "We are all Georgians now." I was waiting for a drum tap, like he was joking. Oh, and we sent $1 billion to Georgia in foreign aid during the week of the Republican National Convention, a fact which received virtually no media coverage. I guess if it isn't mentioned on Faux News, then it never happened.
10:03: The Obama Doctrine - he could have and should have been much stronger in his answer. Now we get to hear the McCain Doctrine - from a guy who doesn't know a Shiite from a Sunni. To listen to McCain say it, he's never been wrong about any foreign policy decision that American's made, going all the way back to when he was in his mother's womb. Please.
10:07: A question on terrorism and Pakistan - Obama first. Obama is mentioning that the central War on Terrorism is in Pakistan (or, as he says it, Pokiston) - it is. That country, in addition to Afghanistan, is where al Qaeda is located, not in Iraq. Here comes a "rebuke" from McCain about where the front of the war on terror is - I know he'll say it.
Of course, a WHOPPER of a lie about Pakistan - Obama never, ever said that he wanted to "invade" Pakistan, and McCain knows it. Yet, he keeps on repeating this lie. It IS a lie, and McCain knows it. I can see Obama laughing in the background - I hope he has a chance to respond.
Obama is insisting on a follow-up, and McCain gets testy. So be it.
Ooo - now McCain is getting even more testy, and, dare I say it,
unpresidential. Obama hits back brilliantly about Pakistan.
10:13: McCain looks really amateurish tonight during his response to Obama's response - I don't know how else to say it. He seems to be losing his composure here, talking about "getting Osama bin Laden; I know how to get him and I'll get him, no matter what." What the phuck (Philly reference) are you waiting for, McCain? Bin Laden attacked us over seven years ago - think you could drop by the Pentagon and enthrall the commanders and generals with your acumen? Empty, election-year rhetoric, period.
10:16: Now Obama is talking about Afghanistan, and I think he's right on here. "We have to have a government that is responsive to the Afghan people, and right now, it is not."
McCain is now talking about how Obama is "correct" about doubling the size of our forces in Afghanistan. Um, where are those troops coming from, McLame? I guess the folks over at Blackwater are going to start taking resumes again, and lots of them.
10:19: Now McCain is talking about Russia's behavior, regarding another Cold War. I have to tell you, he's way off base here. First, he talks about how "wealthy" Russia is. I must have missed something there. Second, people around the world must be laughing their asses off right now, hearing McCain characterizing Russia as "an aggressor." Hmm - Iraq War, anyone?
Georgia provoked the conflict with Russia, and McCain knows it. How does he know it? A former lobbyist for Georgia has a very high position in the McCain campaign; I can't remember his name, but I'll come back to this in the coming days - it gets virtually no coverage in the media.
10:26: A question about Iran and Israel, and McCain again tries to paint Obama as some sort of pussy for wanting to talk to the Iranians without preconditions. As Obama said during the last debate, "no preconditions does not mean no preparation," and I agree with him. Whatever happened to diplomacy? For all of the necrophilia that McCain fantasizes about with Ronald Reagan, one would think some of the metaphorical pillow talk could center around the value of diplomacy.
I like Obama's response - a diplomatic one, too - he cites specific examples about what happened when Bush walked away from diplomatic talks with Iran and North Korea.
10:28: The last question of the night: "What don't you know, and how will you learn it?" Of all the questions that Brokaw could pick from through Internet submissions,
that's the one he picked?
I like Obama's response - that the American dream is fading, or coming into question, and it is. We do need fundamental change, and that's his answer in so many words.
McCain's answer is completely incoherent - "What I don't know is what the unexpected will be."
Groundbreaking. He's all but giving his answer from the Hanoi Hilton right now with many allusions to his POW experiences, with another repeat line - "We need a steady hand at the tiller."
~~~
That's it - no knockout punches, so I have to give the advantage to Obama tonight, because McCain really needed to knock off the surging Obama with some sharp, crisp answers, and he didn't do it. Obama, again left plenty of points on the table, for the second consecutive debate. There's a fine line between being and looking
presidential and hitting back when your opponent is leaving himself wide open with inaccurate assertions and blatant falsehoods.
I'll be back later tonight or tomorrow with more thoughts on the debate.
Labels: 2008 Presidential Debates, Chris Matthews, David Gregory, Keith Olbermann, MSNBC